Lding Is Not Supernatural, There Are No Shadow Men. Its Jus

Okay sure, but I'm not saying, "LD is totally spiritual" and no one here is saying that. But your argument seems to me to be, "LD is totally not spiritual." And most of the people replying to you are only trying to say, "LD could be spiritual." For you to shut down other people and say they're wrong is just being a dick in that scenario. Unless I'm completely missing something here. In which case fuck, my bad.

yes... it is.

Magic is just science we don't understand yetelectricity would've been magic a thousand years ago

Everything is magic, just accept it already.

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"We are not in this Universe, we are the Universe. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself, and we are the Universe looking back at itself to understand itself better." - Carl Sagan. Dr. Hawking said that it's possible that an advanced species in this Universe created the Universe. Ultimately the Universe finding a way to create itself. That they went further than we have gone, which we found the Universe as a microscopic ball of pure energy before it expanded (the Big Bang), and found the cause of this singularity. Came to the profound and shocking conclusion that they were the ones who created this singularity. They figured out time travel, traveled back in time to create the singularity which led to the Big Bang. That 6 of some of the main ingredients for a Universe could be Time, Space, Life, Consciousness, Intelligence and Technology. And this is a possibility for something to come from "nothing.""It is absurd for religion to persecute men like Newton, Galileo and Darwin. But is equally absurd for scientists to say there is no God." - Albert Einstein"The mind is like an iceberg, with 1/1000th of its bulk above water." - Freud"I know nothing." - Plato"There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns." - Unknown source"There may be nothing at all behind this Universe, but at the same time, there is much more to it all." - Unknown source"We don't know a millionth of one percent of anything in this world." - EdisonAnd Einstein said, as well as many Physicists, that he didn't believe the brain of the homo sapien was able to grasp the languages in which this Universe was written, whether there was a creator or not.Einstein also said "Imagination is more important than knowledge."And you said Lucid Dreaming is not a spiritual experience. Well then you must not be doing the Lucid Dreaming thing right. You must be doing shallow meaningless stuff in Lucid Dreams. If you allow it, Lucid Dreaming can be very much a spiritual experience. Like Buddha said, "Peace comes from within, do not seek it without." And Carl Jung, Psychologist, said "He who looks outside, dreams. He who looks inside, awakes." And Einstein said "Look deep within nature and you'll understand everything better."Have you ever decided to meditate in a Lucid Dream?? I highly suggest you do if you haven't. Also one thing I learned to do is study the dream world when in an LD. Look at the clouds moving, wonder how they are moving, why they are moving at a specific speed in a specific direction. Look at how detailed things are like people's gowns and curtains and blankets/quilts. Go up to dream characters and shake their hands and talk to them, and ask the deepest questions, the most profound Philosophical questions I can ask. I shake their hand to feel their grip, the pressure, and the warmth. I asked one dream character "Are you God? are you an angel? a devil? Or are you just me?" and they replied "It doesn't matter who I am." Asked one dream character if they believed in God, they replied "It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what you think." and asked another dream character "What happens when we die?" and she told me "Everything will be alright." and smiled. Asked another dream character where I was, if this dreamworld was real in any sense or not, even though Philosophers and Physicists all over the world question what reality really is and what makes something "real" and if our understanding of "reality" is correct and if correct, how accurate? Anyway, that dream character told me "you know, but you don't know, you're not supposed to be here."I have deeply analyzed the dreamworld in LD's and the more I look, ask, discover, question, wonder, experiment, the more of a spiritual experience it becomes.Now like I said before, meditating in a Lucid Dream... I can't even get into what that experience is like and what it has done for me.But no.... Lucid Dreams are not a spiritual experience.... Not to mention, you sounded bitter in this post/thread."A fool will tell you they know everything, while a wise man will tell you they know nothing."Also, as far as spirituality goes, Einstein said Philosophy is a spiritual subject matter, which it is. And believed it is what gave birth to religion, theology, mathematics, and science. And said Science without spirituality is lame."The meaning of life is to find to the meaning of life, both for the individual and Mankind as a whole." -- EinsteinAlso, "The goal is neither height nor depth, but the center."

Yes, we seem to have quite different definitions for spirituality. It's a tricky word. To me, conciousness is already metaphysical. The physical world would operate by the laws just fine without there existing any experience for anyone. The only experience anyone can observe is their own, so there can't be any objective science about it. You can only correlate physical brain measurements with peoples self-reporting, and that's it. Its not much better than asking a bot "are you sentient?".

you said you've been lucid dreaming for quite some time... what do you do in your lucid dreams? please don't tell me you do all the shallow crap like flying and having sex.

I believe you that you haven't had a spiritual experience in a lucid dream because you haven't had one in waking life. If you do not think it is possible or that it doesn't exist, then the lens through which you see lucid dreams will also exclude that possibility. It is possible that what some people are calling a spiritual experience you have yourself experienced but refer to it as something else.Do you believe there are some questions that science cannot answer?

"Reality" also has to do with the biology of our brains, but we don't argue that it's not real. Without our five senses to interpret and filter it, the world would just look like noise. Understanding the biology of something does not take away from the potential for it to be much more complex - or yes, even spiritual - than we allow for. Assuming you have all the answers about this little speck of the universe and the complexity that exists within it is short sighted.

Actually lucid dreaming is whatever you believe and that's what you are going to get when you have them. And if someone has some spiritual lucid dream that actually helps them and heals them or whatever it is in fact real to that person. Just not real to you because your thoughts and beliefs are different.

Wow, now you're diagnosing strangers' mental illnesses over the internet?I'm curious why you even posted here if the only thing you wanted to hear was a circlejerk on your opinion. Yeah, you deserve a big pat on the back for proving yourself better than all of us crazies. Congrats

That shows us the images are coming from our mind... But there is nothing to suggest we are teleported to some new plane of the universe. Or that its some astral realm, or that shadow people exist.We know that neurons randomly fire in our brains, and that makes dreaming. The information comes from our own brains. That is what the evidence suggests, it does not suggest any mystical or magic plane of reality. There is no evidence to support any of the claims that this is some magic astral plane.Yes, they are wrong, all the evidence suggests otherwise!

I work in neuroscience, hemispheric specialization (or more appropriately, lateralization) has nothing to do with the "left-brain" "right-brain" mumbo jumbo. It has to do with localization of functions such as handedness and language processes. Not with "Ooo I'm logical so I'm so left brain" "I'm an artist, therefor right brain". It's as bunk as the "we only use 10% of our brain" myth.

Yeah this is the real question in my opinion. Science still has no clear answers for why we dream. The nature of consciousness is still a huge mystery, as is, you know, the universe. So it's entirely possible that our dreaming life is something spiritual, and understanding the neurotransmitters and psychobiology involved in dreaming does not negate that.

Save me the bitter attitude you got. I don't have time for 17 year olds.If someone believes Zeus is throwing lighting at them, because they almost got hit by lighting, and they connect that to cheating on their wife, then ya, id say it is important to shoot down their "symbolic interpretation", because all evidence suggests ITS NOT TRUE.And if it does not effect the outside world? Still id say its more important to point out all evidence suggests ITS NOT TRUE. Living in ignorance only makes more ignorance.

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I feel magic in the air

I guess, Quantum mechanics sure does seem like magic. But, its not, unless magic is something we have been viewing as the wrong thing all this time, or unless the only magic there is, is simply the wonder of the universe in all its glory.

I don't know if there are some questions that science cannot answer. There might be, but I am not sure. Science cannot explain many things as of now, but it might be able to in the future.I am not sure if spiritual experiences even exist, I sure don't see any evidence of it, seems like what most people describe as a spiritual experience is just a mental shock, an emotional feeling, an odd happening, or something unusual or profound that happened to them, but still likely explainable by science and rational logic about how our universe works or probably works.

What is short sighted, is thinking that this is some magic dimension that you get connected to when you sleep, or shadow people are some spirit folk watching you as you dream, when there is nothing at all to support this, and all evidence suggests its just a dream, and figments of hallucinations before you start to dream.

You are suggesting that a lucid dream is whatever you believe? That is hog-wash. Okay, then, I believe you are flamingo... Now tell me, are you sprouting pink feathers yet? I did not think so.Lucid dream can form anything you want, but a lucid dream is a phenomena, and one with a likely rational explanation, you cant just make up things and pretend its true just because you want, and then get upset when someone points out that your explanation is clearly defying the evidence and logic of reality.

You are just bitter.

All the images we see are coming from our mind lol That doesn't prove anything. Again just cause there isn't evidence yet, doesn't make it wrong. just like everything you've said isn't proof. Last time i checked just cause we don't have evidence yet doesn't automatically make what you said wrong and just cause something points in a certain direction doesn't make you right. Doesn't seem like this is a conversation worth having cause your wrong, not in the sense what you said might not be true, but that you think these are for sure the answers even thought they aren't proven either.

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http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight - ffs

I agree that we don't understand consciousness fully, but that in no way justifies us thinking that there is something supernatural there filling in the gap in our scientific knowledge.

It's pretty cringy that you parroted their insult back at them.

Graduate from your freshman-level physics class and then get back to me. I used to think like you. It's either immature (forgivable) or extremely close-minded (unfortunate). Don't try to fight religious thought by acting religious.

Alright so, dismissive is a much better word than dick. My mistake on that. But I guess I just have a personal problem with people being dismissive. So I'll resign that you've got some good points. But neither of us is gonna really budge on this topic so, I'll leave it at that.